TOWN OF MELBOURNE BEACH
MINUTES
TOWN COMMISSION - Workshop
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Monday
October 20, 2003
TOWN HALL
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A workshop of the Town Commission of the Town of Melbourne Beach, Florida was called to order
by Mayor Crispen at 7:00 p.m. on Monday, October 20, 2003 in the Town Hall. The Pledge of Allegiance
was said
Present:
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Mayor Crispen
Vice Mayor Smith
Commissioner Price
Commissioner Walters
Commissioner Wilson
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Others Present:
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Town Manager Hoskovec
Deputy Town Clerk Wiley
Several Residents
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I. REVIEW OF POLICIES AND ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES MANUAL
Commissioner Walters stated that the Town Commission was ready to discuss comp time issues for the
employees. He continued to state that around five months ago when the issue was discussed there were strong
feelings that management should not be accumulating compensation time. Then Vice Mayor Smith asked for comp
time, vacation time, and sick time for all of the employees and this report showed that the Town Manager had been
accumulating and taking comp time. He continued to say that in reviewing the Town Manager's contract, it said that
the manager's minimum hours per day was eight hours and was required to attend board meetings. Commissioner
Walters said that the Town Manager did not have an opportunity to explain it. It was brought to their attention that
the Town Manager acquired comp time and Commissioner Walters understand some of it was for attending the
Christmas Parade and not for attending board meetings. Commissioner Walters also pointed out that the Town
Manager was required to attend board meetings unless excused by the Commission. Commissioner Walters
stated that was how it all got going and he thought that Mayor Crispen, Commissioner Price and Commissioner
Wilson were opposed to management having the ability to collect comp time. Therefore, Commissioner Walters
thought that this would be a good next policy to go to along with a couple of others.
Commissioner Price asked if there had been any research done to determine how Town/City Managers in this area
handle compensatory time. Town Manager Hoskovec responded that we had not it in this area. However, he stated
that he knew what had happened in the Town in the past and that all of the managers had accumulated comp time;
they had been compensated for anything over 40 hours in accordance with Town policy. Town Manager Hoskovec
pointed out that the Commission had revisited that policy last month with the salary plan and even then the manager's
position was stated twice in the policy. He then referred to the Policies and Administrative Procedures Manual,
Chapter Nine, Section 9.07 Compensatory Time where it stated that the Town Manager, Town Clerk, Public Works
Director, Chief of Police and recently put in, Finance Manager, "were exempt from the overtime policy but would be
awarded compensatory time in accordance with the Fair Labor Standards Act on a straight time basis (hour for hour)".
Those positions previously mentioned "were eligible for compensatory time".
Commissioner Price continued that he could see that if any manager were to get hour-by-hour compensatory time for
running any organization, it would soon to obvious that no organization could afford it. He pointed out that it would
overwhelm either the budget or the availability of the person being around. Commissioner Price pointed out the long
meetings that they have, all kinds of activities take place, and meetings during the day and evening. He felt that it
was only fair that some compensation be considered for a person putting in tremendous numbers of extra hours. He
stated that there should be a way to give that person the opportunity to take days or half days off. Commissioner
Price stated that he had never been in a situation where the top administrator had compensatory time. He wondered
how it could be planned for or budgeted and how the other towns/cities handled it.
Town Manager Hoskovec stated that a survey could be taken to find out if that was the wish of this Commission.
Commissioner Price asked about comp time for the parade and Town Manager Hoskovec felt that he had never put
that in for comp time. He did not feel that was the reality. Vice Mayor Smith said that the only time that was ever
given the Manager was comp time for Commission meetings and board meetings.
Commissioner Walters said that he didn't have a problem with that if the contract hadn't specified otherwise.
Commissioner Walters agreed that the Town policy stated what the Town Manager had said. Commissioner
Walters pointed out that the policy had been approved on November 8, 1995 and amended on August 20, 2003
to add the Finance Manager. Commissioner Walters went back to the contract that was signed in April of 2002
and it stated "full time” is used in this Agreement refers to a minimum of forty hours a week, and on page 1 of the
job description under Major Duties: Attends all meetings of the Town Commission and various other boards unless
"excused". Commissioner Walters said that the Town Commission was the sole judge of the Town Manager’s duties.
Commissioner Walters stated that to him, the Town Manager would put in as many hours as necessary for the job
and the Commission would considered that when the salary was set. Commissioner Walters continued that if the
Town Manager put in 70 hours then the Town Manager should be able to have a day or two off. Commissioner Walters
wanted to know how the comp time came about and who approved it. He pointed out that all of the employees have a
check and balance except the Town Manager. He also wanted to know how the Town Manager collected the time, did
he fill out a time card and showed where he accumulated the hours. Commissioner Walters wondered that since the
Town Manager had already taken comp time, would he need to repay the Town because it was not authorized by the
contract. Commissioner Walters commented that something needed to be done about it one way or the other.
Mayor Crispen agreed with the points that were made by Commissioner Walters and Commissioner Price that
generally heads, executives, CEO's, and salaried exempt employees don't get comp time. They are generally
paid to do a job and if they can do it in 35 hours a week or 60 hours a week, they are paid the same amount.
However, it was not unusual per his research on the web, for public employees to get comp time but it must be
spelled out in the contract and it was not in the Town Manager's contract. Mayor Crispen pointed out that there
was conflict between the Policies and Administrative Procedures Manual, Chapter 9, Section 9.07 that the Town
Manager was eligible for comp time and the Town Manager's contract where there was no reference to that section.
Mayor Crispen felt that the issue was in limbo. Mayor Crispen then read Section 6. General Provisions: c. “The
foregoing sets out the full understanding of the parties, subsumes any and all oral understands or prior writings,
and may not be changed except by further written agreement signed by all parties.” He felt that the contract had
precedence over the policy but did not feel he or the others could decide this without a legal opinion.
Commissioner Price felt that the Commissioners had a right to interpret it and he felt that the contract superceded
everything else as it said in the contract. He continued to say that compensatory time was not hammered out and
was not there. Commissioner Price commented that it could have been put in the contract as the policy stated that
he was eligible for comp time. He reiterated that it wasn't possible to budget it and the Town couldn't afford it but that
if a person was putting in 70 hours a week, then that person could take hours where he could.
Commissioner Walters asked Town Manager Hoskovec how he had accumulated the hours. The Town Manager
replied that every day for the two-week pay period he filled out a time sheet stating the meetings he attended and
other explanations for the hours above and beyond the hours that were scheduled.
Commissioner Price felt that the whole issue of how much comp time the Town Manager had taken etc. was a moot
point. Commissioner Price stated that the contract clearly stated that it governed the full arrangement between the
Town Manager and the Town. He thought something could have been worked out in the contract and Section 9.07
concerning compensation time and the contract could be amended. Commissioner Price also stated that the Town
Manager normally worked over 40 hours a week and did not think there would be a problem taking a day or half day off.
Mayor Crispen did not think anyone would take the Town Manager to task for example if he was at a late meeting the
night before and he then came in at noon. Commissioner Walters said that he liked the idea that the Town Manager
was keeping track of the hours and that would be something to present when he would be going for a salary increase.
Commissioner Price asked if the time sheet was an official record to which the Town Manager explained that it went
into payroll every two weeks like all of the other employees. Town Manager Hoskovec stated that this was a way to
maintain the hours. Town Manager Hoskovec commented that when Commissioner Walters and Vice Mayor Smith
were employees, they accumulated many hours of comp time. He stated that no one actually used it, it was just
there and rarely did one get to use it. The time accumulated because of the meetings that are attended. He stated
that you can't cash it in and you can't take it with you when you leave. Town Manager Hoskovec stated that the policy
was very clear about that as stated in the Manual, "Compensatory time that has been earned will not be compensated
by cash or time off upon notice of termination, retirement, or resignation from the Town". He stated that when you give
your resignation, not when you leave, or when you are terminated, you can not take any more comp time. Town
Manager commented that the day a person resigns and gives a month's notice, that person can not take any comp
time past that point.
There was discussion about Chief Loizzo's use of comp time and vacation time. The Town Manager offered to check
the payroll records to clarify the issue for Commissioner Walters.
The Town Manager wanted to answer the question of how he had gotten to this point. Town Manger Hoskovec
commented that as Town Attorney Gougelman had drawn up contracts for practically every manager who worked
here, the contracts were similar. He stated that every manager prior to him had been allowed to earn comp time,
to take comp time and to accumulate it. When he came aboard there was very little orientation but he had been
told that (comp time) it was in the policy and he was allowed to do so. No one said differently and, therefore, he
followed the past precedent.
There was a discussion of "full time" in relation to an annual salary and the word "minimum" in relation to the Town
Manager's contract. Commissioner Walters could not remember what the other managers had in their contracts.
Vice Mayor Smith responded that Town Manager Ciummo had that in her contract, which was basically the same.
Commission Price commented that the spirit of the issue was that Mr. Hoskovec is the manager of the Town and there
was no compensatory time hour by hour. However, Mr. Hoskovec does manage the employees and the entire Town
and nobody was looking over his shoulder to see when he would get to work. Town Manager Hoskovec commented
that he wished that were true as it was not.
Town Manager Hoskovec said that the most concerning thing about all of this was that on Friday, his daughter came
home from school in tears as someone at school told her that her father was a thief because he was stealing from the
Town. He reported that there was a flyer going around Town that accused him that he was stealing from the Town
because of this (comp time). He said that he didn't know from whom or where they got it from, but his poor daughter,
who was not even eleven years old, was reduced to tears because someone told her that. Town Manager Hoskovec
commented that was pretty sad when this issue had not even come to workshop nor was it discussed as yet but it
was out in the community. He stated that the flyer said that the Town Manager had accumulated 400 hours that he
was not allowed to accumulate in compensatory time. The Town Manager pointed out that this got back to the
school and it affected his children. He stated that he had been a resident in this community for fifteen years, had
given his blood, sweat & tears either in EMS or as a member of the community in many ways. He had never taken
any money from the Town that he didn't deserve one way or the other. He stated another reality was that in his year
and a half as Town Manager he had gone to luncheons and meetings where he had paid his own way without asking
for reimbursement except for maybe 3 or 4 times in eighteen months. Town Manager Hoskovec commented that there
were many things that came out of his pocket that he didn't ask for reimbursement because that was part of management.
Commissioner Price said that was a sad commentary concerning the situation with the Town Manager’s daughter. He
apologized and stated that he had absolutely nothing to do with it and that it was a terrible thing. Commissioner
Price commented that the Commissioners had to check themselves and they couldn't destroy someone because
they had a different point of view.
Commissioner Walters stated that he had received a copy of the flyer and pointed out that there was a phone number
on it if they really wanted to know who did it. Commissioner Walters said that he called her and asked her. He
pointed out that the flyer didn't accuse anyone of stealing anything. Commissioner Walters commented that it
was the Town Manager exaggerating. He commented that the majority of the flyer asked people to come to a
big meeting concerning the height issue and be sure that the Commission heard them. He said he wished he
had the flyer to show to the Commission. Commissioner Price said that he hadn't received one and wanted to
know where it was coming from. Commissioner Walters said that it was coming from the Melbourne Beach Alliance
begun by Xochitl Ross and some of her friends. He continued to say that Ms. Ross and others were at the Town
Commission meeting and they started to wake up and know what was going on in the community. Commissioner
Walters said that the information at the bottom of the flyer was what was discussed at a Commission meeting
where they talked about the Town Manager having 400 hours of comp time even though his contract said he
could not accumulate it. He said that was all it said. Commissioner Walters said that apparently what they
were adding to the list was what to keep an eye on. He commented that the following were some of the items
on the list: Town Center, East and West; missing money for the fire truck and the 400 hours.
Commissioner Price commented that the Commission hadn't determined that one thing was missing. Commissioner
Walters stated that the Commission couldn't be responsible for every citizen and what they wrote and said. Town
Manager Hoskovec injected that he was not exaggerating that his daughter had come home in tears because of what
she had been told. He was telling them how it was interpreted to her. He was not saying that was how he read it.
Other exchanges were made and the Mayor asked the Commissioners to continue and to get back to the issue of
comp time.
Mayor Crispen asked the Town Manager if it was 18 months and 400 hours. The Town Manager said he did not keep
track of it but the Finance Department had the information but he thought that was close to being correct.
Commissioner Wilson wondered if the Town Manager had to attend all the meetings and that perhaps he could
be contacted during the workday. It was pointed out that the Town Manager shall attend those meetings per the
contract. Commissioner Wilson also pointed out that the Commission could excuse him. Mayor Crispen read
from the Town Manager’s contract, page 3, "The Manager agrees to devote his full working time (e.g. – Monday
through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.) to his work and duties as Town Manager and attend to all Town
Commission meetings. As may be reasonably prudent as may be determined by the Town Manager in consultation
with the Town Commission, the Town Manager shall generally attend meetings of Town advisory or other appointed
boards".
Commissioner Price felt that the contract language spoke to the Manager and not to the Commission. Commissioner
Price commented that in order for the Town to function and since they hired Mr. Hoskovec to be the Town manager,
they should have enough confidence in him to have him decide whether a meeting was important enough to attend.
He observed that there were meetings going on all the time and he couldn't go to all of them although there were
some he needed to attend because of the impact on the Town. He said that the Town Manager should be in tune
with such things to the extent that he could make those kinds of decisions without any help from anybody.
Vice Mayor Smith interjected that in the job description for the Town Manager it said "attends all meetings of the
Town Commission and various other boards unless excused". Vice Mayor Smith said that the reason this was
part of the description was that the Boards were not communicating with the Town Commission in years past
so the Manager would be the liaison to be able to keep up with the various boards. Town Manager Hoskovec
pointed out that the Manager was the advisor to those Boards because of the action they take.
Vice Mayor Smith commented that there was the contract, the Policies and Procedures and the job description and
the Commission had to determine what they wanted. Commissioner Price didn't see a conflict and the Mayor stated
that the conflict was the interpretation that the Town Manager had. Town Manager Hoskovec stated that the Town
Attorney recommended that Mr. Hammett, Town Labor Attorney, be contacted for a legal opinion.
Mayor Crispen felt that it was pretty clear that the contract was the end all and be all of the Commission's relationship
with the Town Manager. Mayor Crispen stated that he thought that the job description should be a part of the contract
and should it have been a part of it, the conflict would have been addressed. Mayor Crispen commented that the
contract was what they had to go on. Commissioner Price noted that the job description spelled out the Town
Manager's duties and the contract spelled out the Town Manager's relationship with the Commission. Commissioner
Price pointed out that because the Town paid the Town Attorney to write the contract, then the contract favored the
Town and not the Manager. Commissioner Price stated that the contract was written in such a way that Mr. Hoskovec
was the Manager, he was responsible, he was to manage the Town, and make decisions on attending meetings but
should something go wrong, he would be in the hot seat. Commissioner Price again stated that the Town Manager
should not read it so strictly that he had to go to every meeting because it wasn't possible. Town Manager Hoskovec
pointed out that there were conflicting interpretations among the Commissioners. Commissioner Price commented
that the contract stressed certain aspects of the Policies and Procedures but did not address the compensation time.
He stated that the Town obviously had compensatory time in the past and it now needed to be clarified. Commissioner
Price said that the Commission needed to define comp time, how long an employee could have the time without using
it and if it wasn't used within a certain time, it would be gone...for everybody.
Mayor Crispen stated that he did not think he heard anyone say that the Town Manager was eligible for comp time.
Commissioner Walters continued to ask how the Town Manager calculated his comp time. Mayor Crispen suggested
that it was a moot topic if the Commission said that he would not get paid for it. Commissioner Walters pointed out
the need for checks and balances. Vice Mayor Smith wouldn't have thought anything about it because the previous
managers received comp time.
Town Manager Hoskovec pointed out that employees were taking comp time instead of vacation days so that was
how the vacation banks grew to the size that they did. He continued to say that when an employee was ready to
terminate, they would get paid dollar per dollar for their vacation leave which they had accrued. He commented that
this was why management asked the Commission to develop a cap for it.
Mayor Crispen commented that in April they spoke about 30 days to clear up comp time. He thought it needed to
be an agenda item as there were many inconsistencies in the policy and that it was a poorly written policy and
needed to be cleaned up and improved on. For the record, Mayor Crispen asked if any of the Commissioners
thought that the Town Manager had to go to every meeting that the Town had. Commissioner Walters mentioned
that the Commission passed a policy by motion for the police department that said the officers could not accumulated
over 100 hours in any way. Vice Mayor Smith did not think, as Commissioner Walters did, that it was done for the
general employees. She said that it depended on the manager such as the one manager decided for the Town Clerk
that when there was a three-hour commission meeting, the Clerk would have to take the 3 hours of comp time that
week or the following one but could not carry it. Vice Mayor Smith said that was the only one that did it that way.
The Town Manager said that he could not do that as he didn't direct the Clerk but he has directed Department heads
to do that except where there are circumstances where that can't be done. He said that when the computer and new
finance program were being installed, the Finance Manager had a lot of hours. The Town Manager stated that before
he became Manager, the Town was breaking the law because they were paying employees like the Deputy Town
Clerk comp time instead of time and a half as they were not exempt employees.
There was discussion about the Fair Labor Standard Acts concerning whether a general employee can request
comp time. The Town Manager said that there were exceptions such as police officers, fire fighters or EMS.
Commissioner Walters pointed out that the Police Department had been complying with the laws but not the
Town. Vice Mayor Smith said they were getting it but at that time the Deputy Town Clerk had the choice of
1 1/2 overtime or comp time. Vice Mayor Smith said that when she was Town Clerk, the Deputy Town Clerk
had to take her time within a week to two weeks.
Commissioner Price asked how overtime would be handled for all of the non-except employees. Town Manager
Hoskovec said that the non-exempt employees should be paid time and a half for any time that was worked during
the week and this was being done. Commissioner Price asked how that was working out as overtime had not
been budgeted. Mayor Crispen asked that overtime was only worked if it was approved by the Manager or
Department Heads if they have consulted with the Manager and this approval would be shown on the time sheets.
Town Manager Hoskovec commented that the Deputy Town Clerk, who was attending the workshop in place of the
Town Clerk because she was on vacation, would be paid time and a half. However, if the Town Clerk was in attendance,
he would have to be sure the Deputy Town Clerk was there so the Town Clerk could take her comp time. There was
discussion on working within the 40 hour work week, options for taking comp time or overtime, directing or not directing
an employee to take comp time, and scheduling. There was a question if the Deputy Town Clerk becomes Acting
Town Clerk, can she switch from an exempt employee over to a non-exempt employee. Mayor Crispen commented
that it was in the Deputy Town Clerk's job description to fill in for the Town Clerk but it does not make the Deputy
Town Clerk the Town Clerk. The Town Manager Hoskovec didn't think that with FLSA an employee could switch
back and forth between classifications.
Mayor Crispen invited those in the audience to speak if they would like to.
Alice Graham, 305 Fifth Avenue commented upon the Town Manager's salary, working hours and comp time. She
did not believe that he should get comp time. The Town Manager explained that when he said he worked a 45 hour
week that did not include late hours in the office and not at meetings. He actually worked 60 to 70 hours a week.
Mrs. Graham mentioned that as a teacher she never was compensated for extra hours she put in.
Mayor Crispen reiterated that if a person was exempt from FSLA than it was legal for the employer to not compensate
but if a person was not exempt from FSLA that it was illegal for the employer not to pay. He observed that most
people put in more than 40 hours a week.
Town Manager Hoskovec questioned if the contract was in keeping with FSLA or was it in violation of Federal law
as FSLA was referred to in the contract and FSLA spoke to comp time, exempt and non-exempt employees. He
felt that the contract should be checked out.
Mayor Crispen felt that there was not anything in the contract in conflict with FSLA.
Town Manager Hoskovec said that he had no problem with not having comp time, he would work as many hours as
necessary, and he worked at the pleasure of the Commission. He asked that what he would like made perfectly
clear was that at no time was he attempting to deceive or to take from the Town. He said that he was working
under the past precedent of the other managers and that policy.
Mayor Crispen felt that no one was questioning the Town Manager's veracity and if he had been Town Manager, he
too would have thought he was eligible for it.
Commissioner Walters felt that no one was questioning the Town Manager's veracity but he had to say that he was
sorry that Town Manager Hoskovec's daughter was told that. Commissioner Walters expressed that he was happy
that some of the residents in the Town were now looking at what the Commission was doing and showing up at
meetings. He continued to express his happiness about residents putting out flyers and questioning what was
going on because for many years no one showed up for anything.
Town Manager Hoskovec commented that the flyer left the impression and interpretation. He said that because
neither he nor his daughter created it or the interpretation that she was given. He did not exaggerate it. Town
Manager Hoskovec wanted to make a point and that when Commissioners say things on the dias and those
remarks were left hanging and up for interpretation. He said that it was like the $100,000 on the fire truck in
that it made it look like this administration lost the money. He stated that was not the case as it had been
funded each year he had been Town Manager. However, this issue was left hanging and open to interpretation
that there was corruption in the administration and that the administration was responsible for losing the $100,000
for the fire truck fund as well as being responsible for having 400 hours of comp time in violation of something. He
said that was how people were interpreting it. He said that when a message from the Commission was not clear,
residents would interpret it and twist it. Town Manager Hoskovec pointed out that was how people got hurt and
how people's images and reputations got damaged.
There was discussion about what was said at the Commission meeting and whether or not it was clear. Commissioner
Walters stated that no one on the Commission can be responsible for how people interpret what they hear.
Commissioner Price said that he had seen some political stuff that said that this Commission lost the money
and that was an outright lie. Mayor Crispen commented that it was now a political time and people run in the
manner in which they think best serves their own position. Mayor Crispen stated that people who distort the
truth and lie do a disservice to the Town and everyone knows it, this happens and it is unfortunate.
Vice Mayor Smith commented that they all agreed that the contract dominated everything. The Town Manager had
so many hours that he accumulated and he did not know he was not allowed to have them She asked if they were
going to take away what hours he had left or keep them and use them up. Commissioner Price stated that the
Commission as well as the Town Manager were bound by the contract. Mayor Crispen reiterated the question and
commented that everyone there agreed that the contract ruled then there were no hours.
Vice Mayor Smith felt that it should be watched as to what department heads come to Commission meetings. She
did not think it was a necessity unless the Commission requested a certain department head to be present. She
stated that if there was a finance question on the agenda that the Town Manager should go to the Finance Manager
ahead of time and be briefed and be able to answer the questions other than during budget time. This would apply
to the Chief of Police also. The Town Manager commented that most of the municipalities in the county do have
the department heads at their Commission meetings. Commissioner Price felt that it was a management decision
as to who officially would come to a meeting. If someone came unofficially then they were there on their own time.
The Town Manager said that he always instructed department heads whom he needed at a meeting. He said that
the problems lay in the fact that at the end of the meeting, the Commissioners asked questions and sometimes
they wanted answers immediately; therefore, it was good to have the department heads there to be able to direct
those questions to them. He stated that was an asset and
they were experts. Vice Mayor Smith did not think that it was a necessity to have a department head sit through
a three or four hour meeting just because the Commissioners asked a question or two. She felt that the
Commissioners could wait a day or two.
Mayor Crispen asked why they didn't let the Manager manage his department heads. Commissioner Walters said
that he wanted to make a point before they made a decision on that. He commented that at a budget meeting some
residents said that they didn't want to speak to the Commissioners because they didn't want a police office glaring
at them. Later Commissioner Walters thought that if he was a resident worried about an officer glaring at him, he
didn't know if he would want to criticize their pay raise. Commissioner Walters said that he apologized to the
resident. He did not know why police officers, as he pointed out that they must have been on comp time because
they wouldn't do it for free. Commissioner Walters said that if they were in uniform, they were being paid for the
most part or were putting in for comp time. He asked why they needed so many police officers there.
Town Manager Hoskovec said that most of them, even if they were in uniform, were at the meeting on their time.
Commissioner Walters asked why they were in uniform. The Town Manager explained that they had just gotten
off duty and some of them live as far as Port St. John. Commissioner Walters suggested that they don't have
them at the meetings unless they were needed. Vice Mayor Smith commented that sometimes they come for
the officer of the month and they come to support their fellow officers. She stated that Officer Smith doesn't
change clothes when he got off at 5:30 to be at a meeting at 7. Commissioner Walters stated that the
presentations should come first on the agenda. Town Manager Hoskovec commented that the presentations
were already as close to the beginning of the meeting now. He also stated that some of them were present
because their salaries were being discussed and they wanted to hear what you were going to say about their
salaries. Mayor Crispen stated that if the Town Manager asked them to be at a meeting, then they are working;
if they just showed up, they were not working. Mayor Crispen said that he would like to leave it up to the Town
Manager which managers he would need to supplement his knowledge base or whatever.
Vice Mayor Smith said that she would like to know how much comp time the Finance Manager accrued because
Vice Mayor Smith knew that Ms. Matthews had to work a lot of hours during the budget plus setting up the
computer system. Vice Mayor Smith reiterated that there were meetings when no one asked one question
and she did not think it was necessary for the Finance Manager to be there. Commissioner Walters interjected
that if he was the Manager, he would make it easier on me than on you and have them all at the meetings.
Mayor Crispen commented that the Town Manager had a budget that he would be accountable for. Mayor Crispen
stated that if the Town Manager wanted a department head at a meeting and was willing to give up three hours
of work time for three hours off, then that should be his call in consultation with the department head. He
commented that this was again a situation where the Commission was telling the Town Manager how he had
to run the Town. He stated that if the Town Manager's numbers were out of line or the budget numbers weren't
in, then the Commission could hold his feet to the fire; but let him manage the Town. Mayor Crispen commented
that how could the the Town Manager free rein to run the Town anyway he wanted. Mayor Crispen pointed out
that the Commission know whether or not a finance person was needed. The comments continued upon who,
how many, when, etc department heads had come to meetings. Mayor Crispen said were not giving Town
Manager had to do it within the perimeters of the budget the Commission approved. Mayor Crispen asked if
the Commission should be telling the Town Manager who he could have at a meeting.
Commissioner Price commented that at this point the Commissioners were sharing their thoughts and feelings
and this could only be done at a workshop. Commissioner Price stated that until the Commission came to some
kind of vote somewhere, sometime all that has been done at this point was to talk. He said that one of the things
that the Commission needed to vote on but it couldn't be done at a workshop, concerned comp time. He stated
that they needed to solidify the comp time issue. Commissioner Price noted that comp time needed to be used
within a certain period or it would be lost. He commented that whoever managed the Town was put in a position
of making a conscience decision concerning which department heads he had at a meeting. Commissioner Price
said that they needed to set up parameters.
Town Manager Hoskovec recommended to the Commission to add an addition paragraph to Section 9.07 that
stipulated that comp time had to be utilized within 30 days of accruing it or it was lost.
Commissioner Walters asked for clarification as to who was being exempted and proceeded to name the Finance
Manager, Public Works Director, Chief of Police, [Town Clerk] and Town Manager. Commissioner Price explained
that just because an employee was exempt did not mean that employee could not be given comp time. He said
that the reason the Town Manager was not entitled to comp time was not because he was exempt but that his
contract did not provide for comp time. He pointed out that all of the other employees did not enter into a contract
with the Town and, therefore, the Policies and Procedures governed them. He continued that if the Commissioners
wanted to control the employees, it would be through the Policies and Procedures. Commissioner Price said that
if the Commissioners wanted to control the Town Manager, they needed to deal with the contract.
Town Manager Hoskovec, after some discussion, recommended "that all employees who accrue compensation
time must utilized that time within 30 days from the date of accruement. Compensatory time may not be substituted
for vacation time."
There was discussion about comp time and vacation time and how the employees should use them. Mayor Crispen
commented that the Commission wanted the employees to spend their comp time within a manageable period of
time so that huge amounts of comp time were not accrued over years and years and that it would be easier for the
Town Manager to manage. More discussion occurred concerning the use of comp time and vacation time. Town
Manager Hoskovec stated that his concern was for what happened in the past in the Town. He said the fact was
that employees, who accrued comp time with no specific time that they had to use it, would use comp time
instead of vacation time when they went on vacation. He stated that comp time was used instead of vacation time
because comp time could not be cashed in but vacation time could be when the employee left the Town's employ.
Mayor Crispen opened the discussion to the public.
Tricia Riemer, 607 Riverside Drive, mentioned that various companies who she worked for had a maximum amount
of vacation time that they were allowed to carry over or it was "use it or lose it". She said that it was 15 months
from the time of issue to the time it disappeared. She commented that would alleviate the accruing of vacation time
over years and years and would eliminate the problem that if the employee terminated there would not be a large
check to be taken out of the budget.
The Town Manager suggested that in order to keep accumulated vacation time down, the employees could be
allowed to cash in but keep a minimum about of hours to carry over to the next year. There was discussion as
to how this concept could be carried out.
Commissioner Price stated that the Commission should be encouraging the employees to take vacation time
and cap it. It was explained that the Town already did this and discussion followed concerning the specifics.
Vice Mayor Smith explained that in the past there were times when it was not possible for certain employees
to take vacation time.
Commissioner Price asked the Town Manager to compute vacation time, sick time and comp time on all of
the employees. The Commission could look at that and see where they were. There was discussion about
the calculations of earning vacation and sick time and the policy of annual leave that was adopted in 1995.
Town Manager Hoskovec noted that with the new system, all of this was computed every pay period.
The Commissioners were having difficulty finding various topics in the Policies and Administrative Procedures
Manual. Vice Mayor Smith suggested that new handbooks be printed and put into three holed binders. Vice
Mayor Smith said that the Commission would request the Town Clerk to make new handbooks that were put in
binders, to insert the job descriptions behind the policies and renumber all of the pages.
Mayor Crispen asked about the following sentence in Section 9.07: "Compensatory time that has been earned
will not be compensated by cash or time off upon notice of termination, retirement, or resignation from the Town".
It was noted that it would affect only the exempt employees.
Commissioner Price noted that FSLA dictated that a non-exempt employee would be paid time and a half overtime
unless that employee chose to get compensatory time. He pointed out that it was not up to the Town or the Town
Manager or department head to determine what the employee could request. Commissioner Price explained how
the Federal government handled the issue.
Town Manager Hoskovec referred to the US Department of Labor’ FSLA, where under General Principles it said
that non-exempt employees were to receive overtime compensation. Commissioner Walters commented that
what the Town had been doing was if an employee was exempt and had comp time coming when the employee
left, the employee got nothing. Commissioner Walters said he could testify to that as he had comp time but
when he left, he lost whatever comp time he had on the books. Commissioner Walters then commented that
non-exempt employees who left were given whatever they had on the books, the Town would pay the regular
rate of pay for that time.
Mayor Crispen thought there needed to be a clause added in Section 9.06 that employees have the choice of
comp time (one and one-half per hour) or overtime at one and one-half times the employee's straight time rate
of pay if 40 hours had been worked.
Mayor Crispen reviewed what the Commissioners had talked about as follows: 1) vacation time cap that was
already a policy and 2) having a cap of 30 calendar days to use comp time.
Commissioner Wilson asked about the update of the police chief situation. Town Manager Hoskovec stated
that he would give them an update at the official Town Commission meeting on Wednesday night as he was
in the process of taking care of a couple of things, but they would have full information on Wednesday if they
could wait until then. Commissioner Walters asked if he couldn't give them a brief update as he had said that
he would have someone selected by Friday. Town Manager Hoskovec said that he had his considerations
down and would have a definitive answer for them by Wednesday afternoon. Town Manager Hoskovec explained
that the assessment panels were held last Tuesday on October 14. He said that one candidate bowed out at
the last minute so there were four very interesting candidates. He commented that the feed back of the panel
was very positive and they all felt very good about the process. Town Manager Hoskovec met with all of the
panel members after the candidates were dismissed. They were asked to evaluate the process as well as to
give him their first and second choice candidates for the position and why. Town Manager Hoskovec stated
that from the 14 panel members there was one name that came up more than a dozen times as the number
one or two candidate. Mayor Crispen observed that there was a clear consensus and he asked Town Manager
Hoskovec if that candidate was his choice also. The Town Manager confirmed that the candidate was his choice
also.
Town Manager Hoskovec said that he had spoken to the candidate and was waiting for a final response from him.
Town Manager Hoskovec stated that he was not trying to hedge on the Commissioners until he got a final word
from that candidate. Commissioner Walters asked if there was a board of police chiefs. Town Manager Hoskovec
explained that there were four police chiefs, one commander, two Town police officers and five members of the
community. He went on to explain about the five stations in the assessment center: 1) two police chiefs and a
commander; 2) six citizens with Chief Ross as the moderator; 3) two police officers and Chief Lock from West
Melbourne as the moderator; 4) the Town Manager administered a leadership profile exam and 5) the Town
Manager held his interviews. The candidates spent 55 minutes at each station.
Commissioner Walters said that was wonderful but what he wanted to know was if the person that the Town
Manager was in the process of selecting was the number one person recommended by the police chiefs. Town
Manager Hoskovec confirmed that. Commissioner Walters said that was all he needed to know. Town Manager
Hoskovec clarified that affirmative and said that panel had given him two choices and they weren't certain which
one they put number one or two so they put them together. Commissioner Walters wanted to know the number
one choice. Town Manager Hoskovec said he couldn't say the number one choice for all of them because they
were split and that was why he was saying that out of the 14 people who were present, this individual was one or
two and he was above everyone else as being a consistent one or two.
Commissioner Walters said that he understood about the civilians but he wanted to know about the police chiefs,
the experienced police chiefs. Town Manager Hoskovec told him that five police chiefs had the candidate either
as one or two. Commissioner Walters was trying to figure out if they gave the Town Manager one and if that was
the one he selected. Town Manager Hoskovec replied that they gave him one or two as he did not ask for number
one. The Town Manager said that the reason that he asked for one and two because he was also looking for fit,
looking for management and looking for fit with the Town. Town Manager Hoskovec said that it was fair and it
would be his decision and he felt that the candidate had to fit with the Town Manager's management as well.
That was why there was a one and two so both individuals could be looked at. Town Manager Hoskovec said
frankly that the group and he felt that one of the candidates was probably too dynamic and viewed him as being
pushy and that was why there was a group meeting afterwards to assess those things.
Town Manager Hoskovec said that the plan at this point was that if the candidate accepted on Wednesday afternoon,
then a polygraph, free of charge, would be administered on Saturday, a psychological would be administered Friday
and the background investigation would be immediately begun by Chief Lock on Wednesday afternoon. Chief Lock
told Town Manager Hoskovec that a complete investigation could take up to 30 days. Town Manager Hoskovec
also said that a urinalysis would be done on Friday. Town Manager Hoskovec said that by December 1, if the
candidate agreed, this individual should be onboard.
Mayor Crispen asked if the candidates knew they would get a polygraph. Town Manager Hoskovec said that the
final five were informed. Commissioner Wilson asked if the fifth candidate withdraw right after that. Town Manager
Hoskovec replied that he withdrew because he had gotten a better offer. Commissioner Walters commented so
that it wasn't the polygraph that he withdrew.
Town Manager Hoskovec explained that when the police chiefs and he initially met to narrow down the number
of candidates, they selected the top five with three others for backup in case one of the five dropped out.
Commissioner Walters asked if the four candidates that were interviewed had any problem with the polygraph.
Town Manager Hoskovec said that nobody had voiced any concerns about taking a polygraph or psychological.
Commissioner Wilson then said that he noticed on the Town Commission agenda there was an item about
possible pay increases for the Town Manager and the Town Clerk. Commissioner Wilson stated that he knew
no Commissioner had an obligation to fill out an evaluation on either one of them and he noticed that there were
two in the packet. Commissioner Walters said that his was finished and he would turn in his evaluation before
the meeting. Commissioner Walters said that he had returned the Town Clerk's evaluation and he just finished the
Town Manager's that day. The Town Manager asked if he could get it on Tuesday and Commissioner Walters said
yes. Commissioner Wilson asked if they would get a copy of it before the meeting and Town Manager Hoskovec
said that as soon as he received them, copies would be distributed. Mayor Crispen asked who did the Clerk's
evaluation besides himself and Commissioner Walters. Commissioner Wilson said that he had not done one
on the Clerk. Vice Mayor Smith said that she did not do the Clerk and did not intend to do so. Vice Mayor Smith
said that she would be going over the Town Manager's evaluation with him in the morning and then they would
receive a copy.
Mayor Crispen asked if it was normal for each of them to get copies of the others evaluations. Town Manager
Hoskovec said that normally they would after they were all done. Mayor Crispen said that he did not understand
how they had to read each others before they did an evaluation. Mayor Crispen felt that the evaluation was
between the employee and the individual and he didn't know why anybody had to read other evaluations and
then even made references in the evaluations. Vice Mayor Smith stated that when she was Town Clerk she
waited until she had all five and then she made copies for everyone.
Town Manager Hoskovec explained that the reason they had some of them at this point was that Commissioner
Walters made a public records request to have them. Commissioner Walters was asked why he wanted them
and he explained that when he did an evaluation, he said that he must have done a couple of hundred of them,
he would go to the supervisor and ask what they thought. Commissioner Walters said that he could not go to
the other Commissioners because it would violate the Sunshine Law. He explained that maybe there was
something in the evaluation that he wasn't being fair about or they saw something a little bit differently so he
asked for the evaluations. There was some discussion about the reasoning and need for the evaluations to
be reviewed before other evaluations were done. Commissioner Walters said that he gave the Town Clerk her
evaluation, asked her to look it over and if she had any questions or comments she was to give him a call or
he would come back in. Commissioner Walters said that would be what he would do with the Town Manager
the next day. There was other discussion as to how Vice Mayor Smith handled evaluations and she stated that
unsigned evaluations were not ready to be public records.
Commissioner Wilson asked if the agenda could be set up a little better. There was discussion as to whether
the Town Clerk set the agenda, the Town Manager, and/or the Commissioners and how much input each had.
The Town Manager suggested that the Commissioners could move anything to a consent agenda on Wednesday
that they would like. During further discussion of agenda items, Commissioner Walters said that it was not proper
to do the Town Manager's evaluation in public but the salary could be discussed. Mayor Crispen said that he was
glad Commissioner Walters and the others felt that way about not doing the Town Manager's evaluation in public.
Commissioner Walters mentioned that it had been done before and they had managers and clerks freak out on them
for doing that.
COMMISSIONER PRICE MOVED, SECOND MAYOR CRISPEN TO ADJOURN.
VOTE: ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
There being no further business, the workshop adjourned at 8:58 p.m
____________________________________
MARK J. CRISPEN, MAYOR
____________________________________
JANE B. WILEY
DEPUTY TOWN CLERK
Note: a mechanical recording has been made of the foregoing procedures of which these minutes are a
part and is on file in the office of the Town Clerk.
PURSUANT TO SECTION 286.0105, FLORIDA STATUTES, THE TOWN HEREBY
ADVISES THE PUBLIC THAT: If a person decides to appeal any decision made by the
Town Commission with respect to any matter considered at its meeting, he will need a
record of the proceedings and that for such purpose, affected persons may need to insure
that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony
and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. This notice does not constitute
consent by the Town for the introduction or admission into evidence of otherwise
inadmissible or irrelevant evidence, nor does it authorize challenges or appeals not
otherwise allowed by law.
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